The following is a community response from Blu Show friend Glenn (aka Torgo) over at PS Nation Podcast. The response is primarily directed at Doc and Lono for their comments regarding the PS3 in Episode #63 of the Red Show. Now normally I wouldn’t post a response to a podcast as featured content, but I think Glenn’s response presents a solid counter point and says what many folks were probably thinking after hearing the segment. Glenn’s response follows. Be sure to chime in and let us know what you think.
*sigh*
So, I read Lono’s Article a few days ago, you know, the one about it not being the PS3’s year. Then I listened to the latest Red Show, and I finally decided that I needed to respond in some way. I already expect the “but you’re on a Playstation podcast” or the standard “what a moneyhat response,” (which still cracks me up since we don’t get paid to do our show.) Originally, this started-out as a simple response that I was going to leave in the comments section, but as you’ll see, I got on a roll.
It’s really funny, because I honestly play my PS3 a LOT more than my 360 or my Wii, and it’s not because I’m a part of a PS-Centric podcast. I never have a problem finding a great game to play on my PS3, and I love the online system. I’ll completely agree that Live is more mature and is definitely more integrated with the games. But, for $50 a year, I would expect some “extra features.” PS3 online though, has taken HUGE strides in a very short amount of time, and except for universal voice chat, online access to messaging, and cross-game invites, they’re pretty even, and it’s all for FREE on the PSN.
At the same time, while listening to Doc (who doesn’t even own a PS3) and Lono try and defend themselves, it confused me because I didn’t know how to take it. I mean, the show is called “Sarcastic” Gamer. Even still, it seems that your bullet-points are still quite vague. If you like the games on the 360 more than what the PS3 offers, that’s great. That’s the exact reason that I own both consoles. If you don’t like LBP, that’s understandable as well, the game’s not for everyone. I honestly didn’t expect to like LBP, but after playing the beta for a few weeks, and the full game for 3 weeks prior to its release, I can’t go for very long without firing it up to check out the new user-created levels and to play online with my friends
Where I do get uncomfortable with your logic, Lono, is when you make statements like “no one is talking about LittleBigPlanet” and saying that only Mirror’s Edge and GTA IV are the same on both platforms.
LBP has been talked about almost all the time by MANY gaming news outlets. It continues to show-up not only on the literal tons of blogs in the net, but also on pretty-much every gaming site that I frequent.
In terms of Cross-Platform games, yeah, it’s still disappointing to see some that are deficient on the PS3, but to say those are the only 2 that are on a level playing field, I’m sorry, but your broad generalization is way off base. From DLC games such as 1942 Joint Strike and Bionic Commando Rearmed to full disc-based games such as:
- CoD World at War
- Madden 09
- Burnout Paradise
- FIFA 09
- Rock Band 2
- Assasin’s Creed
- MK vs. DC
- Pro Evo Soccer 09
- Dead Space
- Far Cry 2
- Eternal Sonata
- The Force Unleashed
- Battlefield: Bad Company
…well, I guess you see where I’m going with this. MANY developers have done some great cross-platform games that are even or sometimes better on the PS3. There’s a reason that EA and a few others have now pledged the PS3 as the lead platform for any cross-platform titles.
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@Lono: If you simply referenced things as “your opinion” more often, a lot of people could stomach your stuff better… instead, you pass it off as obvious fact and insult or dismiss people that disagree.
In the comments to your “This isn’t the year of the PS3″ article, you say Resistance 2 is “just awful, ugly, boring and dumb” yet it’s sitting with a cumulative metacritic score of 87 after 42 reviews which according to them is “generally favorable reviews”. With the exception of Edge (which gave it a retarded 60) I haven’t even heard of any sites that scored it lower than an 80 while there are numerous notable sites that scored it at 90 or higher. YOUR OPINION of Resistance 2 doesn’t mean anything more than that. Going off repeating yourself doesn’t make it fact. We all admit R2 could’ve been better, but you make YOURSELF look ignorant stating your impressions as fact when they fly in the face of what most other people think; especially when you’re fighting the accusations of bias.
Bottom line, I think you have an idea or impression and that you failed to communicate that idea or impression through your article or podcast because it makes no sense that everyone else commenting on it “doesn’t get your point”… maybe it’s YOU that didn’t make the point you thought you were making.
Nobody’s saying the PS3 is perfect, we’re saying you’re displaying blatant bias to an extreme and THAT is why people ALREADY consider both the Red/Orange show and SarcasticGamer.com in general as an Xbox 360-centric site. A stigma that I as one of the hosts of our Playstation Podcast do not appreciate. If sensationalism and getting people pissed off trumps all for page hits and comments, at least be honest and upfront about it. Admit you intentionally do this and get off on the hoopla around doing it.
Whether you and Doc care to admit or acknowledge it, I’M SORRY TO TELL YOU AGAIN… people ALREADY consider your show a 360-centric show. This isn’t _my_ opinion… it’s the truth and tirades like the PS3 bashing in Episode 63 is a prime example of a contributing factor to it.
Killzone 2’s not just pretty, the gameplay is compelling and very well done. The nice thing is, for me (someone who’s primarily a PC gamer, and CoD4 is really the console FPS that finally hooked me) they have a control scheme available that’s just like CoD4.
It’s funny because I was so into playing the game, that I didn’t even notice all of the lighting effects etc until after about a week of playing. The progression system takes good aspects from games like CoD4 and Resistance 2. Also, it’s got a deep system of online tools for Clans, Match Scheduling, internal messaging and the like.
Chill out both Torgo and Lono.
I don’t own either of the console I am just a PC gamer at the moment, I have considered many times to buy either an Xbox 360 or a PS3 and in my opinion they are both let downs.
The Xbox 360, a great console. Lots of games to chose from with a great online service. Shame about the 4th Xbox my brother is on and everyone else I know that have had their console replaced. If it wasn’t for this I could have one by now.
The PS3, Amazing hardware with a real potential, just NO game that is out seems to be pushing the PS3 to the quality I would expect except maybe MGS4. I do think that many of the PS3 exclusives have been a let down, but thats just my opinion. I was never a fan of Motorstorm, Haze and WarHawk. The PS3 needs to get more solid exclusive games behind it before I’m actually going to fork out the money for it.
Don’t flame me for this. I may not own either console but I know enough about both to have an opinion.
Both some of the comments Lono and Torgo made are correct. But lets be honest neither console is special.
i think all that dont see that if one consel is better than the other it doesnt matter…. all that matters is u enjoy the consel you play on
Great points Torgo.
Lono, finish R2 before saying anything please. “I hate gears of war 2 because I was at my buddies house and I watched him play for 25min and the story was dumb!! Bad game!”
Like it or not the red show is a 360 podcast. There is a reason Rothbart does his own Playstation Podcast. Doc has no PS3 opinions until he buys one. PS3 is ment for more then games, so unless you own one you dont see this. Buy a nice TV and get some Blu Ray movies, you will be impressed.
If you prefer the 360s everything, go play it. Don’t bash on the PS3 on areas you don’t know. Like bashing on R2 without even playing it more then 5 hours….There is a reason it is a huge game. Go finish the campaign, the 8 player co op, and play some multiplayer. THEN come back and give a review.
LBP, get some friends and play. It is not a single player game.
Plus people forget the 360 came out a year before the PS3. So compare 2008 360, to 2009 PS3.
@Rothbart: Go and read some of those Metacritic reviews before posting the score. Almost universally reviewers didn’t like the single player, but lauded the multiplayer and co-op…
As for how I express my opinion, I believe that the article is my opinion of what is the truth. People are free to argue with me, heck, I’ve obviously INVITED it. That’s cool and I appreciate Torgo stepping up to take a crack at it. For those that don’t like how I give my opinion, well, that is THEIR opinion and their entitled to it. I ain’t gonna change.
Here’s my final thought on the whole “Red show is Xbox 360 centric” or whatever… those that think that are PS3 apologists. No one with a clear head, who doesn’t sit on forums all day defending their purchase for no reason, would believe that. Just because we bashed the PS3 in one episode doesn’t mean crap. People are selective listeners who only want to hear what they want to hear. We’ve bashed the Wii and 360 many times over…
But THOSE kind of people don’t remember that part, cuz that doesn’t fit into their trolling… Bash us all you want. We thank you for listening.
@Rothbart
you said “If you simply referenced things as ?your opinion? more often, a lot of people could stomach your stuff better? instead, you pass it off as obvious fact and insult or dismiss people that disagree”.
Wow, you do not seem very bright from what I am reading, cause guess what its THEIR site and its implicit what is posted on web sites is an authors opinion….it DOES NOT have to be EXPLICITLY stated.
Attention folks, lets not forget my disclosure here……THIS IS MY OPINION……..silly huh….kind of like your opinion arguement.
@Lono
“Our sponsors sponsor us BECAUSE we have opinions and that people come here to read about them… Oh, and, I am right on this…
“For those that don’t like how I give my opinion…”
So was this an opinion or a fact cause you said it is.
“…those that think that are PS3 apologists. No one with a clear head, who doesn’t sit on forums all day defending their purchase for no reason, would believe that…”
Wtf is you problem. I don’t like the PS3 or plan to ever buy one, but with comments like yours it’s pretty obvious you’re bias. You argue with insults and deny any facts that aren’t yours. Your right though when you say the red show doesn’t hate the ps3 its just you. At least the others can recognize that the articles they write are opinions not pure facts, but you seem to believe you’re always right. I understand not changing your opinion cause of what a few people say, but when you start throwing insults and being ignorant of what others say you might as not have a comment section cause you obiously could care less for what we have to say anyway.
Wah wah, when the red show rip on MS for RROD, nothing gets said.
Lono said “I didn’t think it is the year of the PS3″ and SDF get their panties in a twist. If it isn’t the year of the PS3, then surely its a good thing because next year will hold even more promise than this year.
Rothbart normally has a valid point somewhere in his comments but all I read was “retarded” and any point he made suddenly seemed lost on me.
Wait, you talk about your “sources” you quote in your article but I wonder if you yourself have even read those articles. Your MSNBC reference, if you read it states that 2008 “should” be the year of the PS3 since it had one the HD format war, upcoming titles and in January of 2008 it beat out the Xbox in sales for the first time. The article goes on to clearly state, “So will 2008 be the breakout year for the PS3? Probably not.” And finally as their conclusion states, “The contest is for second place right now. And Microsoft just has too much of a head start on Sony to make 2008 a reversal of fortune, leaving Sony again holding the bronze over a console that was supposed to deliver the gold.” Yet you felt oblique to use this resource as an arguing point saying they made “stupid proclamations”.
The Electronic Arts article did not go in depth about how this will be PS3’s year but only stated they “expect PS3 to outsell 360 in 2008” again nothing to do with which console will have more software sales, or even if will be “THE” year. But I will still report the statistics I have found on hardware sales this year between the two consoles, taken from http://www.vgchartz.com. The date range these results were taken from was 01/06/08 – 11/16/08. The Wii started the year with about 20 million units sold and currently has 36 million sold, which is a net result of 16 million units sold thus far in 2008. EA’s estimate according to your article was 12-14 million. The Xbox 360 started the year with 16 million units sold and currently has about 23 million units sold a difference of 7 million units sold thus far in 2008. EA’s estimate was slightly low at 6-8 million. Lastly the PS3 started the year at 9 million units sold and currently has 17 million units sold a difference of 8 million units sold. EA’s estimate was slightly high at 9.5-11.5 million units. However again plainly shows that although this may have not been a gang buster year that was projected the overall argument is in fact correct, PS3 HAS sold more units than the Xbox 360 this year to date.
The last reference to your article was a search on N4G with “year of the PS3” in the search box. Most of the results are no longer than a paragraph from small blogs stating the same thing as the MSNBC article that 2008 “should” be PS3’s year or would it “could” be or it is “poised” to be which is certainly not proclaiming the next coming. Although I hardly think any of these results were major news outlets.
Now, to respond to your specific thoughts which are personal opinion and have already been picked apart I will give my own opinion. In the article you state “…but people don’t buy PS3 games for the multiplayer component alone” you know this based on what? I will argue that people do in fact buy games based on the multi-player component alone, this according to over 500K people who bought Warhawk for the PS3 which is strictly an online game. You also state the success of the Xbox based on only a few games all of which are exclusive to the Xbox and one of which is not even out yet. A better gauge would be to judge the sales on a multi-platform game such as Far Cry 2 which has sold 319K units on the PS3 versus 411K on the 360, which now all of the sudden doesn’t seem so bleak. Although Fallout has a larger discrepancy I would even allow that for a better research on how the games or the systems are doing. For arguments sake Fallout has sold 308K on the PS3 and 580K on the 360 again not HUGE numbers given the greater market saturation of the 360 worldwide.
Lastly, you are entitled to your opinion which is all you truly stated just has others are entitles to theirs, but to cast your opinion off has fact for simply including some links then request others to also have facts or their opinion is wrong is just idiotic. You guys, the Red Show, simply play what you enjoy nobody can blame you for that. But to cast off the PS3 like it is not a competitor in this game is ignoring one whole side of the argument. The success of either platform does not depend on what you guys deem is fun or personally play and that is what BOTH of your arguments were based on. You wanted the research our concrete evidence has a response and I doubt even this will satisfy that thirst or change yours or anyone’s mind. However that is what’s great, we each can have our own opinions and each be right.
Lucifersjello, if you don’t have anything to ad to the debate, other than to attack me, please, just stop the trolling.
So, Zvolen, you’re saying that this year IS the year of the PS3? If not, then what are you saying?
I’ve never said the PS3 hasn’t had success, heck, In my small way, I’m helping with their success. I’ve purchased quite a bit of Sony merch myself. I WANT THEM TO BE SUCCESSFUL…
Again, what is it that you’re trying to say?
@Lono
Thats pretty hypocritical of you. Whatever, your arrogant reviews on everything have made my decision. I’m done with the red show and with your reviews. I know you don’t care that you lose more fans with every article you write, but you could at least try to act like you care.
@ Lono:
Classic, of course don’t respond to the facts that you insisted upon but turn the tables and ask a rhetorical question.
What I was saying is that its certainly not has bleak as you have made it seem, and that none of the sources you quote for your entire article insisted that this was THE year for the PS3. Quite the opposite actually.
You didn’t say the PS3 has HAD success either, but simply dwarfed by the monstrous 360 which I also when in depth about in my previous comment.
@Dan: You may not know… but to use “it’s their site” as a defense for Doc and Lono’s comments is laughable… do a bit more research man.
@Piranacon: I initially wasn’t going to respond to this at all because Lono is incapable of taking any of my criticism of the Red/Orange show being 360-centric as truth and it’s immediately discard because _I_ am a PS3 fanboy. Which in fact MAKES the case I’ve tried to make to him several times so I thought it might be interesting to see what others had to say… I’m not sure exactly what the threshold is where Lono realizes maybe someone else is right, but I realize it’s futile for _me_ to point out that he’s not being effective at defending his show as not being 360-centric or anti-PS3. He doesn’t see it and no amount of “me telling him” will change that, it’s going to take different faces and different voices.
If what I’ve said is “retarded” to you, I guess that’s your prerogative.
@Lono: “awful, ugly, boring and dumb” games don’t get cumulative 87’s on metacritic with 40+ reviews no matter how you look at it. You were being sensationalistic and over the top.
Rothbart, that’s my opinion of the game dude… Sorry it conflicts with yours… but you should really take a look at some of the reviews for other points of view.
Holy crap, you just said it was your opinion. Congratulations!
The next step is for you to admit that everyone else on the planet doesn’t need to wholeheartedly agree with it. If you want extra credit, you can even admit that you can understand someone may have an equally valid but different opinion.
We’re making progress here.
Um… If you want Rothbart, I can preface every sentence I write with “It’s an Opinion” if that will help you out buddy…
I know discerning what is opinion from fact CAN be difficult, at times, but nothing that a remedial reading class wouldn’t fix…
@Lono, as long as we’re both in agreement that every sentence you write is an opinion rather than fact, go for it… it might help other people out too.
I’m surprised Doc hasn’t said anything yet. I’m sure we’ll here his thoughts on the next show. : /
Now that Lono and Rothbart aren’t yelling at eachother, can we move on? Seriously, how long are we going to keep up the attacking? I swear, it’s almost as bad as the political season…
My 2 cents:
I have neither system, but since upfront cost is a concern I would most likely go with the 360. Plus, none of my friends owns a PS3.
Although I might just spend the money on computer parts. I need to upgrade my rig.
@Sean “Rothbart” Workman I wasn’t saying what you said was “retarded”, I was getting at you used the term “retarded” which in my books is as when most gamers use the term “Gay”.
When gamers use such terms in their posts or Podcast I stop listening to their points no matter how valid they are. If “gamers” can’t express themselves without using such cheap/childish/derogative words then I don’t want to be classed as a gamer.
The point I was trying to get across (And must have failed) is: You normally have some good arguments/points for most of spats on this site, but when you use “those” sort of terms you come across as a crazy FB who has no real grasp on what the terms mean.
Congrats… you like PS3… most of us don’t cuz it sucks but hey, thas your choice.
What I really hate is how the ps3 boys always go on about the fact that live is not free.
Well let me put it like this: the ps3 live is free… but so is dog sh*t.
i loved “aside from universal voice chat, messaging and game invites their the same”
lol
yeah Lono is a tool…
and his arguments are totally biased…
that’s why i dont visit this site anymore!