Cheap Ass Gamer is a staple in the gaming community, with a huge fanbase and a podcast that was voted “Best” by someone at some point according to their iTunes logo. But this morning the talk of the town seems to be how they started a rumor contest amongst their devoted (and massive?) fan base, and how one of those rumors sucked in some of the biggest gaming blogs around, specifically Kotaku.
Personally, my only issue with CAG isn’t that they duped everyone with the Xbox Pure rumor, it’s that they’re both justifying what they did, and shifting the blame to their listeners. Kinda cheap methinks.
A few days ago, the rumor of the Xbox Pure emerged, supported by a blurry image of some sort of allegedly official memo smuggled out of Redmond. The image started on the CAG forums, in the personal blog of one of their members. Since then it spread like a hilarious case of the clap throughout the blogosphere. Eventually the photo found its way to Kotaku’s Managing Editor, Brian Crecente.
Crecente, apparently took the rumor as plausible, based on his previous experience with CAG, and posted the image, a link to CAG as the source, and his analysis of the evidence. When informed that the “rumor” was nothing more than a Rick Roll courtesy of the CAG community, Crecente updated his entry, as is Kotaku’s normal procedure, and said this:
UPDATE: It appears that this rumor story could be CAG throwing their credibility out the window as part of a contest. Kotaku’’s decision to run rumors is always based on the credibility of the site and the information contained within it. In the past CAG has proven to be a reliable site, having broken a number of stories through apt reporting. It appears that may no longer be the case.
Now that was a bit harsh, but false it ain’t. CAG ran that contest, and therefore should take full responsibility for the fallout (not their audience). It’s CAG’s fault.
CAG lead an enormous number of podcast listeners for whom they started an impromptu contest calling for listeners to fabricate a rumor and get it posted on a major blog, like Kotaku.
Now, an army of CAG devotees have descended upon Kotaku and Crecente expressing their outrage over the credibility of CAG being lowered a notch because of the incident.
CAG patriarch Cheapy D doesn’t like the notion either, and attempted to defend/justify/distance CAG and himself from the debacle.
In his response to this uproar that also involved Joystiq, Gizmodo, X3F and others, Cheapy D said:
I feel it’s important to note that this story originated from one of our users’ personal blogs and was not promoted in anyway by the CAG staff.
So they ordered the hit, but they didn’t actually carry it out themselves. Who does that sound like?
Why not just take responsibility? It’s not like it’s some sort of awful thing that happened.
You don’t ask your community members to do things you aren’t willing back up with your own ass. Calling for thousands of people to do something, and then getting mad-incredulous when you’re semi-implicated in the deed is kinda cowardly.
Cheapy D repeatedly justified the prank and denied responsibility for it throughout his well-written dance number. At the end of the whole thing I’m left not knowing exactly HOW to feel.
In more ways than one I respect CAG and look up to what those dudes have accomplished through blood, sweat, and tears with that site. CAG IS A SHINING EXAMPLE of what years of hard work can amount to if you have the talent and stamina.
I also don’t take an iota of issue with the whole subject of rumor-mongering. We’ve found ourselves reporting a thing or two without the resources or contacts to properly investigate them.
I suppose that the bottom line is that I’m just bummed that CAG is hiding behind its listeners. It seems like a CHEAP ASS way to maintain deniability over something they didn’t have the guts to do themselves.
That, more than ANYTHING, is what hurt their credibility with me.
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He’s not dodging anything Doc.
How can he be responsible for something his listeners did?
It’s not like he made them do it.
You’re missing the point there CheapAssListener. They CALLED for their audience to do something and then deinied responsibility when they did it
I agree they need to man up, but it hasn’t hurt their credibility with me. Just my opinion of Cheapy and Wombat.
I actually wrote an article on this last night, so I’ll link to it before writing another long comment here again XB
http://gamingdungeon.ikrell.com/?p=502
They accepted the traffic, and therefore the ad-generated-income that came with it. IMO they should take the responsibility. They know, as well as any site, that speed is everything. If you are the first to get onto N4G, digg, or any of the other sites you can potentially generate more money. So of course the big blogs are going to run.
Even if they don’t take the blame; they are still suffering the consequences, and will be for a long time.
I read a similar piece on this today, and while the author was much more forgiving than you were, but nonetheless… I found you had this common ground.
EDIT: CAG now has an official response, and while I agree with a lot of it, Cheapy’s really dodging the bullet here. He kinda needs to man up here. He played a prank, true he didn’t do much with it aside from say “I’ll give you a game if you can do this” It’s still kinda sleazy to dodge responsibility here. He asked his listeners to pull a prank, just take a little responsibilty for it. I still have faith in CAG, I’m just dissapointed in Cheapy and Wombat.
got that here:
http://gamingdungeon.ikrell.com/?p=502
XB Someone actually reads GD? I didn’t know that. And yeah, this article made me aware of Cheapy’s response.
Either way kotaku got powned.
And CAG proved there point.
Yeah you should read it. I sneak in and grab a dose at least once a day.
Oh crap… wait you’re… you… heh I’ll be. Small world.
@neezy Nobody is debating that. At issue is a podcast host not standing by his actions and blaming everything on everyone else.
@neezy: people post rumors that ultimately prove to be false ALL THE TIME. It ain’t that big of a deal really. Kotaku is kind of known for rumor mongering anyway.
Listen to the podcast first before you judge them Lono.
Episode CAGcast #134: Pure Credibility
Yesterday
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/podcast.php
I am the one that emailed this story to Doc last night, and honestly I expected a WAY different response. I understand that credibility is a BIG issue with gaming sites of all sizes, but I think there is more to this story than is being represented here.
I whole heartedly believe that Cheap Ass Gamer, and CheapyD specifically, have done nothing wrong here. They did not, and have not denied that Wombat, who is the Co-Host of the CAGCast, came up with the contest on a whim after discussing how a lot of the gaming news sites and blogs run completely uncredible rumors without doing any kind of research, or even checking with the source to determine credibility. I agree with their opinions on that, and I think they did a noble thing by exposing it to be true. They have taken credit for it by posting the story on the front page of CAG and discussing it in the latest CAGCast.
The fact is not one of the blogs that ran the story contacted CAG or the originator of the story an any way, which totally validated the contest. Crecente is now being a total hypocrite by blaming his own post’s non credibility on a source that was not researched in any way, and he believes this is fair.
I know in the past there have been false news stories that were assumed true on this site, and I don’t remember Doc blaming anyone but himself for it. I know there was something involving Walmart, but I forget the details.
As a site that regularly produces parody news stories, SC is taking the chance that any number of blogs or news sites will pick them up as true. I believe that has also happened in the past.
Doc, would you feel the same way if this was all about a parody news story you created? If Kotaku picked it up, did not contact you in any way to validate it, and then posted in the article that Sarcastic Gamer has just lost it’s credibility?
EVERY SINGLE ONE of our parody news stories is CLEARLY labeled as such, and they are a benchmark of our site’s Friday programming.
The difference…. We do not give away prizes or incentivize our listeners to spread our articles as truth… AND….
If we DID do that… and this is the kicker….
We would own up to our mischief/mistake (whichever the case may be.)
you can’t find a THING written here that criticizes the concept.
I am being specific. It is the blame shifting that bums me out.
Why is everyone getting so uptight about this? I think that we all know a prank has been played, and ha ha, some people have egg on their face. But its the “they’ve made me look a fool, I’d best attack their credibility so I don’t lose more face” comment that Kotaku made. Pinch of Salt, people. It happened, get over it.
Sorry I forgot to add the fact that you guys have a whole day dedicated to fake news stories and other websites have fiction fridays everyday.
@Rm2112: we post fake articles on Fridays and mark them as “Fake News.”
If we did hook somebody, we would laugh at them.
CheapyD threw his own guy under the bus when he wrote: “I feel it’s important to note that this story originated from one of our users’ personal blogs and was not promoted in anyway by the CAG staff.”
It sure as hell was promoted by the CAG staff. You can’t get around CheapyD’s own quote.
He should have laughed off and moved on, instead, he’s trying to cover his ass, and that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
@Doc: “EVERY SINGLE ONE of our parody news stories is CLEARLY labeled as such, and they are a benchmark of our site’s Friday programming.”
I know, and i love them by the way. But that doesn’t mean some site could pick it up as true, and then another site sees it and doesn’t check the source at all and runs it…and it gets bigger and bigger from there.
“It is the blame shifting that bums me out.”
That is exactly my point. Crecente is now shifting the blame away from himself and Kotaku, instead of having a laugh at his expense and moving on like you guys have nobly done in the past.
@Lono: “If we did hook somebody, we would laugh at them. ”
As you should, and as Cheapy and Wombat are.
the quote from Cheapy is just a part of the entire post he made where he did “own up to it” I don’t see how you are missing that. It’s just a fact about how it origionated, and he has talked to the user that created it and he thinks it’s just as funny. He is no where near a bus.
“I feel it’s important to note that this story originated from one of our users’ personal blogs and was not promoted in anyway by the CAG staff.”
@Lono: “I feel it’s important to note that this story originated from one of our users’ personal blogs and was not promoted in anyway by the CAG staff.”
He has stated on on the last 2 CAGCasts that he takes pried in the fact that neither he or any CAG staff member has ever reported a false rumor on the front page or on any page that is not made by the community. He does research and checks sources.
@rlm
We do have common ground here, but the way I read that post from Cheapy (which I have now read 5 times today trying to see it another way) is that he’s trying to salvage a relationship with Crecente rather than just saying
“Look we made our point and I stand by it. They should have checked their facts and one of our listeners just won a fabulous prize for a job well done.”
@Doc
Now that this has blown up lite it has, I’m sure Cheapy is thinking about what his relationship with Crecente will be in the future, but he said he understands that this probably means that no more stories from CAG will make it to Kotaku. I wish he would have layed out a more firm position like you say, but you know he has to be pretty torn right now about all of this. I can’t speak for him, but I think he is prepared for the end of their relationship/association.
its a shame.
I wish I had thought of this gag.
kidding… mostly
Can’t we all just get along?
(Excluding Lono of course)
Sure. Let’s get along
I just fired off an email to you guys, but I might as well double it up here:
Hey guys,
Just wanted to clarify my position a bit…
I’ll be the first to admit that I’m not a great writer and I think some of my article was misunderstood.
“I feel it’s important to note that this story originated from one of our users’ personal blogs and was not promoted in anyway by the CAG staff.”
I’m merely stating that I did not “promote” the article to the front page of CAG (where I do not post nutty rumors), nor did I or my staff make any claim anywhere that the story was true. The line you are focusing on was only included to highlight that a community sites’ user blog is not a reliable source. Especially this guy’s blog who had no other real entries on it.
I thought this was made clear by the next sentence,
“We did not submit it to any sites as news and it did not appear on the CAG front page where a big story like this would wind up if I was certain of its truthfulness.”
When we have a community member write up a good blog post, we can post it to the front page, like this:
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/?f=356
I absolutely take full responsibility for the contest and everything that results from it. The article was not written in an attempt to cover my ass, but I felt it was necessary to expound on the situation.
I’m sure you are busy, but if you aren’t completely sick of the topic by now, I discuss it right at the start of this week’s show.
http://media.libsyn.com/media/cheapyd/cagcast134.mp3
p.s. I definitely do not throw my community members under the bus. In the past, I’ve even hired lawyers to protect their identity:
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/08/23/cheapyd-makes-motion-to-quash-circuit-city-subpoena/
Blame doesn’t need to be shifted, as the blame is fully on Crescente. The only reason that he would post such obviously false information would be to draw page hits. Kotaku got tons of page hits on this one. Any idiot could tell this was a false story and if Crescente wanted to support some form of credibility as more important than page hits then he could have researched the story AT ALL. He didn’t, all he cared about was the page hits that would come from it and then turned around and whined about it when he was called out.