Rothbart’s Rant 82 – When Is Credit Due?

February 12th, 2008 at 2:00 pm · 80 Comments

When you go against the grain because you feel you’re right, it can be an amazing feeling when everyone acknowledges your foresight and perseverance. To have a plan and stick to it even in the fact of likely failure can be considered confidence or foolhardiness; with the distinction being made once the final outcome has been determined. We seem to be one step closer to such a distinction with respect to the Playstation 3.

One major multi-pronged criticism of the Playstation 3 has been it’s forced inclusion of Blu-ray technology. I use the term “Blu-ray technology” because I think it’s very important to distinguish the Xbox 360′s optional support of HD-DVD movie playback from the Playstation 3′s mandatory support of both Blu-ray movie playback and BD-ROM storage for games.

The inclusion of Blu-ray on the Playstation 3 was responsible (in part) for: a higher price, slower disc reading speeds than DVD, limited availability early on due to a shortage of blue laser diodes, and causing the standalone Blu-ray player market to reach the market artificially late by hogging all the limited availability blue laser diodes in the first months after launch for Sony’s flagship Blu-ray player, the Playstation 3. When you add in the fact that early Blu-ray movies (still encoded in MPEG-2) looked worse than their VC-1 encoded HD-DVD counterparts and that the Blu-ray spec was outmatched feature-wise to HD-DVD, it would seem to have beeen easy money betting against Blu-ray.

Had you made that bet then, you might be regretting it now.

This rant isn’t the “Ha ha, I told you so!” rant, I’ll save that for the day the HD-DVD Consortium officially announces they’re disbanding. This is more along the lines of asking when we change from “What in the hell are you doing Sony?! Do you even want to win the format and console wars?” to “Wow, Sony nice job beating HD-DVD (and adding significant value to your system along the way)… now that you’re improving your game library, adding some truly innovative features, and addressing some gaps in your online feature set, we’ll see what you can do about that pesky console war,” or something along those lines? They’re nowhere near out of the woods, but they’ve made it a lot further than many folks expected.

I see a lot of people not only not giving Sony props for hanging tough and arguably winning the high-def movie format war… face it people… even the “arrogant ass” can play their cards right every once in a while. Don’t they deserve recognition for their accomplishments regardless of whether you like them or not? Frankly, in my book not losing to HD-DVD yet has been an impressive accomplishment in and of itself!

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Categories: PlayStation 3

FlintSteelton

@McLovin: Did you just say that Microsoft hates BlueRay? They don’t, they actually wanted to support it, and still don’t mind if the public wants it. I’ll give em the thumbs up for putting a BlueRay attachment on.

@Tyler: So HD DVD could win if people pirate data of BluRay and burn it to HD DVD? The hell si that?

I bought a PS3 when it had it’s first price drop. I’ve done nothing but rent a few games and play PS2 stuff on it (and a few linux experiements). i haven’t gotten the chance to really use it, but that looks like it’s gonna change. If BlueRay is the chosen format, people will buy more PS3s. Then, develoeprs will see that PS3 is a viable market to make games for and give us what we’ve been waiting for.

I hate fanboys who are closed minded. So another system is doing better and becoming a “threat.” Who cares? Are you talking up your own system to make it seem like you’re not missing out? Just admit that you’re not gonna get everything with one console, cause you ain’t. Only way to play both 360 and PS3 is to have a 360 and PS3, then you’ll never feel left out.

I’m glad the PS3 got some boost. We need the competition in the industry, and frankly I’m glad that I might get some use outta my PS3.
gamerz

As an owner of all the consoles I just have to say that I never criticized Sony for including a BluRay player. Truth be told, the BluRay player is the only thing I ever use the PS3 for. It’s a good BluRay player, no doubt about it.. but for anything else, it’s a POS!!!! Seriously, any game you can think of is MUCH BETTER on the 360. Not a little better, but off-the-charts better.

The PS3 STILL CAN’T SCALE to 1080i… it downscales almost all games to only 480p. What a piece of crap!!!!

The PS3 in only good for watching BluRay movies – nothing else. For games it’s an utter joke, a POS3. It’s crap- not good for anything but watching bluray movies.
http://www.Website.com Matt

gamerz calm down there buddy jeez, your the exact fanboy everyone hates… capitlized letters, exclamation marks, exagerating each point

PS3 vs X360 is like comparing a Ferrari vs Lamborghini… Who cares which one you get, they are both real nice so pick the one you prefer, no need to talk smack on the other one to make your look better

I cant stand the negativity in this whole console war…All 3 consoles are amazing with their own huge advantages, and big disadvantages.

No one can change the mind of a fanboy, so I dont know why I bother replying sometimes…
Anon

These comments have proved many LuLz
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Mark

@ rothbart: “Also, OMG you didn’t just mock a company for taking a loss in one division to profit in another did you? What in the hell do you think Microsoft’s Gaming division has been for the better part of a decade?!?!”

Right… because MS making bad moves means that Sony didn’t? Or that equal amounts of bad moves are nulled out? And I’m not sure what Microsoft Gaming Division tactics has to do with Sony putting BluRay in the PS3 being a mistake. Unless you expect us all to take fanboy stances and pledge allegiance to these companies. So if I think Sony putting BluRay in the PS3 is a mistake, then surely I must love MS and the xbox, right?

“Why won’t Blu-ray eventually surpass DVD?”

I gave my list of reasons for why HD formats would never do it and why DVD did. It has to offer something more that consumers value and most consumers don’t consider “better picture resolution” to be any added value for the price increase. The list of bullet points for advantages of DVD over VHS is large. The number of bullet points for advantages of BluRay over DVD is small. Larger size isn’t even a bullet point when talking about movies, only PCs for BD-R.

And if you’re going to bring up “eventually” you have to factor in adoption methods of other content delivery methods like direct downloads or new formats. LaserDisc never was fully adopted. Maybe it would have been “eventually” but once DVD was released, boom. done. DVD beat it on pretty much all bullet points. MiniDisc might have been adopted as a portable music device “eventually” but mp3 players came along. boom. done. I can take more music with me in a smaller size. And here’s probably a closer example. SACD and DVD-Audio. Both offer better sound quality and multi-channel audio but no other bullet points over CD. Both formats didn’t take hold in the mass market. Last time I looked, you could find some at Best Buy, but you had to find THE shelf where they had them. We can talk about them “eventually” taking over CD, but I think their fate is set in stone.
Krazy Ken

@ Sean:

This may be surprising to alot of people. The 360s 12x DVD drive actually reads DL DVDs (many 360 games) @ 8x. Only single layer DVDs are read @ 12x.

PS3′s Blu-ray drive reads SL and DL BD-ROMs at a consistent 2x.

So, at peak performance an 8x DL DVD is only slightly faster than 2x BD-ROM, and at minimum performance is slower:
http://www.maxconsole.net/content_img/dvdvsbr.gif.jpg
DJ

I agree with James Thomas. Rothbart, I think you’re placing far too much importance on the format war, which to most gamers was completely secondary to the real point. The fact of the matter is that Sony’s online support has always been terrible, they’re just now releasing controllers with rumble, Home is taking a long time to come out, and most importantly there have been practically no exciting exclusives since the system’s launch.

I bought one of the original 60 GB PS3′s when I heard they would be moving to software PS2 emulation, but so far practically all I’ve used it for is to play PS2 games. The only actual PS3 games I own are 2 downloadable titles. I am thoroughly disappointed, and it has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with what media the system uses – I’ve never even placed a Blu-Ray disc inside the system, except for the free copy of Talladega Nights it came with – and I own a high-def TV.

Looking ahead, there are some good exclusive titles coming out this year, and with the new controllers and Home, the system will finally be legitimate, 18-24 months after its release. There’s still a long road ahead, Blu-Ray’s apparent victory in the next-gen format war means nothing to me. If Microsoft gets their way, a decade from now we won’t be using any media other than our hard drives with downloaded content. Their support of HD-DVD even in the face of its collapse is evidence that they want to confuse consumers so they’ll adopt online content more quickly.
Xero1014

I am the proud owner of all three of the next gen consoles. I can honestly say that starting off I was most impressed with the ps3 and it was the first system I bought. Lots of things swayed my decision such as 1 Online play was free 2. The system has built in wifi so I didn’t have to buy a wireless adapter (which cost me $100 with my 360) 3. You can use any blue tooth headset with the PS3 4. If I ever wanted to upgrade my hard drive I could just go to the store and buy a normal computer harddrive to replace my old one. 5. Ps3 controllers can recharge and don’t need batteries ( I know I’m cheap lol) So from the start I believe the PS3 had alot of things going for it, its just when you have a nice gaming system that has only a few games that really shine then people start to bash the console because thats all they see ,a week gaming system, and not a strong multimedia machine. So I am very glad that sony is starting to get some titles that really let people see the system for the power house that it truely is.
trankillity

I was one of the lucky/smart ones who picked up a free PS3 along with a 40″ Bravia when the Sony FullHD promotion was on in Australia. The only reason that I got it was because it was effectively an added bonus to the TV that could play Blu-ray movies but now my opinion is starting to sway.

I’ve bought and finished Ratchet and Clank and am now working my way through Devil May Cry 4. Both of these are insanely fun games and just look gorgeous on the system. I’ve also spent over $120AUD on the PSN store on some of the most fun downloadable games I’ve ever played (especially Calling All Cars!).

Bravo Sony for sticking to your guns, it’s just a pity you had to be so arrogant about it from the get-go.
Cideu

gamerz

The PS3 doesn’t “downscale” any of its games to 480p, you just have your PS3 set to 480p.
http://www.sarcasticgamer.com Sean “rothbart” Workman

@gamerz: Early adopters that bought HDTVs that can’t do 720p are the ONLY ones affected by what you’re complaining of. It sucks for you, I understand that, but for the VAST MAJORITY of folks owning HDTVs, 720p is their solution.

@Mark: As the price of high-def discs approach DVD and as HDTV adoption increases, people will warm up to buying HD movies. If I could pay $4-$5 more and get them in HD, I’d do it. I’m not going to pay 200%+ more though, and neither will the general public. Also, with the enhanced abilities of the new format(s), there’s the very real possibility compelling non-feature content will become commonplace. We’re only scratching the surface here. I’m not trying to guarantee Blu-ray will surpass DVD, but I feel pretty safe guaranteeing that 7% is only a starting point. Also, keep in mind that when it becomes in their best interest, the movie studios can simply decide “it’s time to focus on HD content” and stop releasing movies in DVD. Clearly this won’t happen soon, but it could selectively happen sooner than you’d probably believe.

@Ken: How do we know all Xbox 360 drives read data at 8x? The only place I could find that said that referenced Plextor info. Also, how many 360 games are dual-layer compared to single? Finally, if you’re saying the PS3 loads data _faster_ how do YOU explain the apparent evidence to the contrary?

@DJ: I’m not putting too much importance in the format war, I was simply asking why people are so reluctant to speak up with their victory of this little battle seems imminent. People seem quite happy speculating about how well HD-DVD was doing when the players’ prices dropped, with the PIP discs came out, when the DVD/HD-DVD hybrids came out… but now that the final nails are going into HD-DVD’s coffin, most of the talk is about how sad it is HD-DVD is dying… oh poor customers, too bad Toshiba, etc. My question was when do we sit back and say “Okay, I really didn’t see it working out like this but damn Sony, you did it. I thought you’d screwed yourself forcing Blu-ray into the PS3 but it’s clear now it was the right choice for you to make.” Plain and simple. As a business, they made the right (and unpopular) choice. They deserve some credit for that.

Also, PS Home is _NOT_ the PS3′s online service. Home being delayed has very little to do with what people think it will. It’s not the magic answer to the features missing from the PS3 that the 360 has. Home is a social networking application… the 360 doesn’t even have one. The PS3′s online feature set will be improved via the dashboard and PSN.
http://digg.com shonky dealer

what is the story with all these 12 year old turds playing flame wars? you know the (MS rocks, Sony sucks stuff) can’t anything linked from digg be actually balanced without kiddies jibbering? If you believe everything on digg over the last 2 years you’d have bought a Wii… Let me tell you the Wii would be great if was released 17 years ago with the Amiga. The Wii is trash compared to PS3/360, but digg reckons it’s great, ha? has anyone used one? it’s like chunky graphics for 5 year olds… so what it has a remote that little gimmick will keep the kids happy for their attention span of about a month, keep gibbering kiddies…
Krazy Ken

@ Sean:
According to this thread about backups (I apologize if inappropriate), not many 360 games fit on a SL DVD:
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/486357

About BD-ROM vs DVD speeds: It’s been common for manufacturers to rate their DVD -ROM drives based on peak SL performance, with a slower rating given to DL speed. I don’t know what 360 drives share this characteristic, but I ASSUME they all do, considering all the complexities involved in hardware inter-compatibility.

I also said that 8x DVD will have its moments. Still, I’m curious to know what evidence you’re referring to.
obama

The 360 upscales all games to 1080i.. the ps3 downscales almost everything to 480p. For gaming the 360 is the *only* way to go.
Infininja

It will probably take them moving forward instead of backward. Stop removing features from new SKUs (why do they have multiple SKUs in the first place?) and do something about this installing console games “feature” that is starting to crop up.
Krazy Ken

To Obama (post #65) who said:

“The PS3 downscales ALMOST EVERYTHING to 480i”

99% of the games on Ps3 have a maximum resolution of 720p. If your TV doesn’t support 720p it’s most likely one of those big heavy CRT HDTV’s from several years ago that only supported a couple resolutions, and you’re out of luck like you said. For the other 99.9% of the HDTV-owning population, we’ll continue to enjoy PS3 games in 720p. Sure, 360 may upscale games to 1080p, but you would need to be sitting very close to a very large tv to even be able to notice the difference- besides, it’s really just a blender that softens the pixels in-between. It’s not true 1080p…
Krazy Ken

Correction: change 480i to 480p

(I should’ve proofread that BEFORE I submitted.)
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jason

I gave them props I just bought a 60gig (Brand New) from Blockbuster. For 3 reasons. Blu Ray for my new TV. Can replace my disk Error PS2, could stream to my psp. Oh it plays games too? cool.
http://www.myspace.com/iyaoyas615 Iyaoyas615

I am coming very close to buying a PS3 for Uncharted and Ratchet and Clank but I am too addicted to achievement points I don’t know about the whole Home thing but I am about to take the leap.
http://www.sarcasticgamer.com Sean “rothbart” Workman

@Iyaoyas615: If it’s “really” Achievements you’re addicted to, rest assured that Uncharted and Ratchet _both_ have Achievement counterparts… I’d argue Uncharted does it better than Microsoft’s implementation as you can actually earn in-game things such as alternate rendering modes, videos, etc.

I’m guessing you “really” meant you’re addicted to Gamerscore though… in that case, there’s currently no counter for it. Frankly I think Gamerscore has had a negative net impact on gaming since its introduction. It changes the way people play games and has effectively turned them into consumables. People plow through them for points and toss them aside when they’re done.
ants

@Rothbart: The fact is people don’t need high def movies because DVD quality is good enough as it is. Blu-ray will never become the market leader – it will simply be superceded by on demand movies.

Most people can’t even tell the difference between a 480p DVD and a 720p high def feed as it is – especially if they’re further than 8 feet from the screen.

You come across like a whiney little fanboy. You can dream all you want, but at the end of the day high def doesn’t offer any substantial improvements over DVD. This is the exact same argument that PS3 and 360 fan boys always make against the Wii – “the graphics are better, therefore it will win the console war”.

Newsflash buddy – just like the Wii has decimated the other two consoles in only a year, DVD will be the majority share for years to come until on demand video is available.
http://kladcnew.co.uk Leigh

Rothbart i agree with u that the PS3 is most certainly the best console out there but u need to quit yo jibber jabber! U do try and correct evryone on this page, just shhh and let people comment without youu trying to be the better person and correcting them, does get quite annoying!!
Anon

@ ants

Excuse me, but most people can tell the difference between 480p and 720p. Even my mom, who’s absolutely ignorant in techie stuff can tell how much clearer my BluRay movies are in my HDTV than her DVDs are in her CRT TV. The DVD player is hooked up to a component cable whle the PS3′s via HDMI.

Having the “not much different” argument is getting old, and is actually just being touted by people who want to justify not being able to afford going HD. It’s no different to Aesop’s fable about the dog who couldn’t jump high enough to reach the fruit up a tree.
smon jiff

@ Rothbart

On this page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_high_definition_optical_disc_formats#Technical_details

under the technical details area you can see the maximum read speeds for dvd, hd dvd and blu-ray, and blu-ray is quite clearly the fastest.
I don’t know what this has to do with read speed x’s or whatever I just thought it cant be a bad thing to bring more facts to the table.
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Rothbart’s Rant 82 – When Is Credit Due?

February 12th, 2008 at 2:00 pm · 80 Comments

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