I'll post it here..

First.. getting that new password for the forum was grerat fun :roll:

Okay, now what I really want to post about. The iPhone..
You may want to know that I come from a very long background of selling wireless devices ie; cell phones and moslty for Cingular and now I work for a major re-seller of IT products to businesses. I work in the Creative Professional Group and sell mostly Mac products.

With all that being said, I would highly recommend you, as you always seem to say, "put on your flame suits" (as I am wearing one now) and parody the shit out of the iPhone. This thing has sooooo many things going against it (coming very soon it seems, at least a couple of class-action lawsuits less than a month after its' release), amongst other things. I bring this up here because this seems like a perfect site to discuss such things.

I have a laundry-list of things that are horrible about this "phone" and its business-model. Too many to state in this post however, I would strongly reccomend to whomever is the actual person that creates these friggin amazing parodies, that you seriously start looking at this car-crash if you haven't already.

Just a few examples: No detachable battery which means when your battery dies, you have to ship the phone to Apple or maybe AT&T will do it, pay $100+ to replace the battery and of course be without your phone for a minimum of 5-7 business days (under a threat of a lawsuit, AT&T has announced that they will implement a loaner phone program. Of course you wont have access to your phone book becasue you have no access to your SIM chip. This is what's leading to the second Suit being filed against AT&T. Well that and the fact that its almost impossible to find anywhere in your contract that explains the battery replacement charge).
There's a really cool chart that I have that I can't seem to import to this post that shows Total Cost of Ownership over 2 years up to $5914.76 (pre-tax) depending on the model of phone you choose and rate plan.

But even if you take the "cheap version" and get the minimum plan, you're still looking at over $2000.00 (pre-tax) to own this device for the contractural minimum two years while you're using a now antiquated browsing standard, EDGE instead of a more appropriate standard for a device like this, like say WCDMA (3G).

Again, far too many things wrong with this device (that you may even be reading this post on right now) to mention here, like third-party software, all the hidden fees to download content that you may not be aware of yet.... and then there's the annoying little fact that AT&T has the dubious title of some of the worst over-all coverage nation-wide of any major carrier right now (that's actually something that can and will be remedied relatively fast)... Not to mention that one of the strongest appeals to using GSM is that you can take your phone overseas and use a local pre-paid SIM chip but you cant do that here because you dont have access to your chip and now will be forced to use international roaming when you leave this country... Let's all say it together... Class-action... well, you get the point.

Anyway, I know there are many-many people that are willing to look past some of these issues because it does look so pretty and you waited so long to get it but I really believe that this is going to turn into an embarassment for Steve Jobs who pledged that they will sell what works out to about 4% of global cell phone sales of the iPhone in the first year. 4% is a lot of phones from a company that has absolutely no prior experience (Nokia wouldn't even make a claim like this and they're positioned MUCH stronger than APPLE) producing and selling cell phones prior to this and all these 4% will be sold exclusively in this country because you will not be able to unlock this phone to work on other GSM networks anywhere else.

In closing, I really believe the parody on the "Surface" parallels some of the issues that the iPhone is going to suffer from: it looks gorgeous but unless you have money to burn, you're better off investing an an iPod and carrying a seperate cell phone around... I know, it's soooo inconvenient to carry TWO devices... Oh the horror. You'll have a hell of a lot more money left over that's for sure...
I'm pulling up the zipper on the suit.. fire away! :D

P.S. If this is not an appropriate forum for this topic, I do respectfully appologize.

Thanks,
DaK

P.P.S. Can you read it now?

Holy shit, Batman. Add some paragraphs and maybe my brain won't immediately object to reading it. :)

I should have counted how many times I went cross-eyed/lost my place. Would have won an award or something. :D

Spambots FTL. But at least this one has a minor sense of grammar.

I still can't read it. Short attention span and all.

Spambots FTL. But at least this one has a minor sense of grammar.

What does "Spambots FTL" mean? I'm not a code-breaker.

I still can't read it. Short attention span and all.

lols
you get through about the first "paragraph" and then.... ooo kitty!

I still can't read it. Short attention span and all.

Increase your medication or move on...

Spambots FTL. But at least this one has a minor sense of grammar.

What does "Spambots FTL" mean? I'm not a code-breaker.

He thought you were a robot that was automatically posting that message. Not sure why...

I didn't read the whole thing, and I apologize. I saw this:

P.S. If this is not an appropriate forum for this topic, I do respectfully appologize.

and assumed it was a spambot, because I've seen so many spambots that say that. :) Usually it's indirect advertising, by talking about a product, it's assumed that people will look it up. But I apologize...sorry. :)

Wow! That's neat-o! I just learned two things:

1: That there are actually spambots that post on forums. I really had no idea such things existed.

2: Not one damn person seems to have anything to say on the actual topic. I find that interesting given the type of forum we have here.
Maybe I should have mentioned the built in games in the phone and emphasized that instead of all the other technical mumbo-jumbo....

"blah-blah-blah video games blah-blah-blah-blah-blah video games blah-blah-blah".......

This topic has been debated to death on other forums...the basic consensus is to wait until the iPhone v.2 comes out. :)

Wow! That's neat-o! I just learned two things:

1: That there are actually spambots that post on forums. I really had no idea such things existed.

2: Not one damn person seems to have anything to say on the actual topic. I find that interesting given the type of forum we have here.
Maybe I should have mentioned the built in games in the phone and emphasized that instead of all the other technical mumbo-jumbo....

"blah-blah-blah video games blah-blah-blah-blah-blah video games blah-blah-blah".......

hey man, don't get hostile.
who pissed in your cherios?
I agree with DDL
the iPhone has already gotten past the dissing and flaming.
old news now, old news.

Wow! That's neat-o! I just learned two things:

1: That there are actually spambots that post on forums. I really had no idea such things existed.

2: Not one damn person seems to have anything to say on the actual topic. I find that interesting given the type of forum we have here.
Maybe I should have mentioned the built in games in the phone and emphasized that instead of all the other technical mumbo-jumbo....

"blah-blah-blah video games blah-blah-blah-blah-blah video games blah-blah-blah".......

hey man, don't get hostile.
who pissed in your cherios?
I agree with DDL
the iPhone has already gotten past the dissing and flaming.
old news now, old news.



I wasn't being hostile... I was being "sarcastic"... :P :wink:

Wow! That's neat-o! I just learned two things:

1: That there are actually spambots that post on forums. I really had no idea such things existed.

2: Not one damn person seems to have anything to say on the actual topic. I find that interesting given the type of forum we have here.
Maybe I should have mentioned the built in games in the phone and emphasized that instead of all the other technical mumbo-jumbo....

"blah-blah-blah video games blah-blah-blah-blah-blah video games blah-blah-blah".......

hey man, don't get hostile.
who pissed in your cherios?
I agree with DDL
the iPhone has already gotten past the dissing and flaming.
old news now, old news.



I wasn't being hostile... I was being "sarcastic"... :P :wink:

video games???

Is it necessary to quote more than the text being addressed, especially if the post you're quoting is directly above you? Honestly.

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/2519/idiotphonees2.jpg

Big and bulky? :roll:

Cool rant (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone) from thebestpageintheuniverse.net

Cool rant (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone) from thebestpageintheuniverse.net

One thing that Maddox forgot to mention in his "rant" was that he no longer ma****ates with his bare hand, now he cups his d*** in his Nokia E70 and pulls.

But, overall, it was a good comparison between the two phones.

Big and bulky? :roll:

Ask your ESL instructor what that means.

One thing that Maddox forgot to mention in his "rant" was that he no longer ma****ates with his bare hand, now he cups his d*** in his Nokia E70 and pulls.

But, overall, it was a good comparison between the two phones.

I couldn't think of a better word for it, could of said 'article' but that would of loss a lot of peoples attention right there...

Maddox thinks everything he uses is Godly when compared to everything else. It's all part of his perfect, king of the universe style. Granted his articles are filled with a lot less hate than they once were...

First of all, let me make it clear that I don't have an iPhone yet, but I am a AT&T customer and I also happen to have a 5G Video IPOD. Most of your points are a bunch of overinflated FUD being put out by phone companies because they are afraid of what Apple might do to their market share. Anyway, let me dissect your points one by one.

Just a few examples: No detachable battery which means when your battery dies, you have to ship the phone to Apple or maybe AT&T will do it, pay $100+ to replace the battery and of course be without your phone for a minimum of 5-7 business days(under a threat of a lawsuit, AT&T has announced that they will implement a loaner phone program. Of course you wont have access to your phone book becasue you have no access to your SIM chip. This is what's leading to the second Suit being filed against AT&T. Well that and the fact that its almost impossible to find anywhere in your contract that explains the battery replacement charge).

This is probably the only valid criticism I've seen in your post, but I've had an Video IPOD for well over a year and haven't had any trouble with battery life. Be that as it may, it would be nice if customers could change their batteries on their own.

There's a really cool chart that I have that I can't seem to import to this post that shows Total Cost of Ownership over 2 years up to $5914.76 (pre-tax) depending on the model of phone you choose and rate plan.

Does it seem strange to you that so many Tech analysts are putting out charts about the iPhone? I'm starting to see more articles warning me about the dangers of the iPhone than Al Queda. When was the last time you saw a chart about the Blackberry or a Sony Ericsson? It's fairly clear that other cell phone companies are really afraid of this phone, which is very funny to me.

But even if you take the "cheap version" and get the minimum plan, you're still looking at over $2000.00 (pre-tax) to own this device for the contractural minimum two years while you're using a now antiquated browsing standard, EDGE instead of a more appropriate standard for a device like this, like say WCDMA (3G).

Oh, No, A Service Plan! Why are people shocked that you have to have a service plan for this phone or that's it's more expensive than the heavily subsidized phones on the market? If you buy a cell phone, you will have a service plan. That's how the cell phone business works. My current phone, which I bought three months ago, is in the same bracket as the minimum rate plan offered for the iPhone. The only price bump is in the price of the phone, so what's your point?

There's nothing shocking here, really. The iPhone is priced so high because Apple makes their money off hardware. Do you really think that Apple makes money from iTunes? No, they make money off of selling you an IPOD. And Apple is targeting the high end, Blackberry-like market, not phones used by everyday joes like you and me. Apple is not WalMart, dude.

Edge versus WCDMA: Steve Jobs has repeatedly made it clear that 3G technology is a resource hog and would kill battery life. Apple's hardware works so well because of what they leave out, not because they pack their products with useless technology. That is why IPODs don't have radio tuners. Radio tunes would also kill battery life.

Be that as if may, I don't see any reason why Apple won't offer 3G in the future when the technology improves, but that's exactly why no one should buy a first generation device.

Again, far too many things wrong with this device to mention here, like third-party software, all the hidden fees to download content that you may not be aware of yet....

What third party software are you talking about? Google maps? You Tube? Steve Jobs has made it clear that the iPhone is a closed platform and that no one will be able to put third party software on this phone unless (1) it enhances the experience in an important way and (2) it meets Apple standards. Unless you can provide specific examples of dangerous third party software, you're just FEAR-MONGERING.

..and then there's the annoying little fact that AT&T has the dubious title of some of the worst over-all coverage nation-wide of any major carrier right now (that's actually something that can and will be remedied relatively fast)...

I have never dropped a call with my current Cingular/AT&T phone. I also have had the benefit of living in San Francisco and Los Angeles, so perhaps I've been lucky so far, but where are all these people who have constant problems with their coverage with AT&T? Where do they live, in boony town? I doubt someone who lives hundreds of miles from civilization will need this phone anyway. This phone is obviously targeting high-end city dwellers, browsing on their way to Starbucks, so stop classifying the thing as something it's not.

Anyway, I know there are many-many people that are willing to look past some of these issues because it does look so pretty and you waited so long to get it but I really believe that this is going to turn into an embarassment for Steve Jobs who pledged that they will sell what works out to about 4% of global cell phone sales of the iPhone in the first year. 4% is a lot of phones from a company that has absolutely no prior experience

Whatever dude, Apple is first and foremost a hardware company. They have over thirty years of experience. And if you have any doubt about their abilities, do a google search of all those articles predicting the failure of the IPOD. It's the other companies that don't know what they're doing. Find another company that can actually make a phone that you don't need a manual to use. I've had a cell phone for four years and I still can't figure how to add contacts and I'm one of the most computer literate people you will ever meet. I could use an iPhone from just watching the damn commercial.

All criticisms aside, no one is forcing you to buy this phone, dude, so just calm down and eat some chicken.

Big and bulky? :roll:

Ask your ESL instructor what that means.

You're hilarious. :) Look at these links:

http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/06/iphonesizemodo.jpg
http://images.macrumors.com/article/2007/06/30/IMG_6701_500.jpg

I don't really see how the iPhone's that much bigger than regular phones. :)

I don't really see how the iPhone's that much bigger than regular phones. :)

People see what they want to see. Everyone wants to compare the iPhone to the ultra-tiny, non-smartphones, when it's not even in that bracket. But this dishonesty actually goes deeper: There's an overwhelming distaste for Apple in this country because no one wants to admit that their over-priced-hard-to-use cellphones suck or that Microsoft, Dell, HP has been shoving junk down their throats for the last thirty years. So people run away from their products without even giving it a chance.

I saw an article on CNET the other day entitled: "Will you be returning your iPhone?" They were just trolling for some bad news about the iPhone. Have you ever seen an article like that for all the other smartphones on the market?

People see what they want to see. Everyone wants to compare the iPhone to the ultra-tiny, non-smartphones, when it's not even in that bracket. But this dishonesty actually goes deeper: There's an overwhelming distaste for Apple in this country because no one wants to admit that their over-priced-hard-to-use cellphones suck or that Microsoft, Dell, HP has been shoving junk down their throats for the last thirty years. So people run away from their products without even giving it a chance.

I saw an article on CNET the other day entitled: "Will you be returning your iPhone?" They were just trolling for some bad news about the iPhone. Have you ever seen an article like that for all the other smartphones on the market?

You're right. I've never seen an article like that for other phones. Maybe that's because they don't over-hype products and then deliver shoddy products. Or maybe it's like you said and theres a giant conspiracy against everything Apple.

It's weird that you're calling other phones over-priced. I could get a cell phone with more features and a full keyboard for $100 less than I could get the iPhone. And ya know what? It's not as overly complicated as you might think. It has icons on the front which you click on to do what you want to do. That's not complicated at all. Actually I've never used a phone that was complicated. It was always, press menu, then move to the application you want to use and BAM! You're using it.

You're right. I've never seen an article like that for other phones. Maybe that's because they don't over-hype products and then deliver shoddy products. Or maybe it's like you said and theres a giant conspiracy against everything Apple.

How is the iPhone shoddy? Give me an example of how it's shoddy. You don't even own one, so how do you know? And remember, the media overhyped this thing, so they could have something to tear down later. When Steve Jobs presented the phone at MacWorld, he did exactly what he's supposed to do as CEO, sell his product.

If Microsoft sells a new product, the Tech World will sing its praises until the cows come home, despite all evidence to the contrary. Remember how the Zune was going to be the ultimate IPOD killer? Remember how Tablet PCs were going to change our lives? Do you hear anyone criticizing Microsoft products as overhyped?

It's weird that you're calling other phones over-priced. I could get a cell phone with more features and a full keyboard for $100 less than I could get the iPhone. And ya know what? It's not as overly complicated as you might think. It has icons on the front which you click on to do what you want to do. That's not complicated at all. Actually I've never used a phone that was complicated. It was always, press menu, then move to the application you want to use and BAM! You're using it.

It's obvious you don't know anything about the phone market. Sony's Ericsson P990 is more expensive than the iPhone ($700.00). Some versions of the Blackberry are $500.00. Of course, many companies have lowered the price of their phones now that they have real competition.

Okay, but let's talk about your so-called $100 dollar phone. What do you have, one of those Motorola Q phones that Steve Ballmer was pitching as being a better alternative to the iPhone? In order to qualify for the Motorola Q, Verizon Wireless requires a two year contract with a voice plan of at least $39, and a data plan of at least $45, or a minimum "Core Choice" voice and data package of $79.99.

Over two years, that minimum $80 contract amounts to $1920 in base service fees, which is really close to what you would pay getting an iPhone. But wait, Verizon "recommends" its Extra Choice plan as the default service plan on its website. That plan costs $109.99, or $2640 across two years. You see, phone companies heavily subsidize their phones so that they can make back their money selling you a service plan.

The people at Apple, on the other hand, make their money off their hardware. That's their business model and one that works for them. They don't have to be like the competition because they are offering customers a revolutionary interface, a Video IPOD, OSX and a web browser with full functionality.

And I'm happy your so-called $100 phone works, but there are many phones that are tedious to work with and you know it. Me, I use my phones just to make calls and that's it, but I don't fault people who desire a better experience, especially when they've been feed inferior products for so long.

How is the iPhone shoddy? Give me an example of how it's shoddy. You don't even own one, so how do you know? And remember, the media overhyped this thing, so they could have something to tear down later. When Steve Jobs presented the phone at MacWorld, he did exactly what he's supposed to do as CEO, sell his product.

You're right I don't own one. I've used one though at the Apple store.

Let me think how the iPhone is shoddy... Hmm. Could it be the non-responsive keyboard, sluggish internet, terrible coverage from AT&T. Not to mention that the much hyped youtube functionality doesn't work well and not all of the videos are even supported.

It's not just me that has a problem with the iPhone, heres just one of the few reports. (http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/23/new-details-about-the-iphone/)


If Microsoft sells a new product, the Tech World will sing its praises until the cows come home, despite all evidence to the contrary. Remember how the Zune was going to be the ultimate IPOD killer? Remember how Tablet PCs were going to change our lives? Do you hear anyone criticizing Microsoft products as overhyped?

I hear people criticizing Microsoft all the time. It's almost become a sport criticizing them. I've got my problems with Microsoft, Vista for instance is something that bothers me a lot, but that's for a different thread. I heard bitching about Vista for months and it's SLOWLY starting to stop, but I still hear people complaining about it every time it's mentioned.


It's obvious you don't know anything about the phone market. Sony's Ericsson P990 is more expensive than the iPhone ($700.00). Some versions of the Blackberry are $500.00. Of course, many companies have lowered the price of their phones now that they have real competition.

Ouch. That hurt. So there's a phone out there that cost much more than iPhone? That's not surprising. I don't want that phone either. I enjoy the competition if I can now get my high end phones for less, at least Apple got that right.


Okay, but let's talk about your so-called $100 dollar phone. What do you have, one of those Motorola Q phones that Steve Ballmer was pitching as being a better alternative to the iPhone? In order to qualify for the Motorola Q, Verizon Wireless requires a two year contract with a voice plan of at least $39, and a data plan of at least $45, or a minimum "Core Choice" voice and data package of $79.99.

I must of incorrectly typed my last post, I said I could get a phone with more functionality for $100 less. (Actually I just checked, I did say for $100 less). It's the Nokia e70. (http://europe.nokia.com/A4142095) It's a year old and only $360.


Over two years, that minimum $80 contract amounts to $1920 in base service fees, which is really close to what you would pay getting an iPhone. But wait, Verizon "recommends" its Extra Choice plan as the default service plan on its website. That plan costs $109.99, or $2640 across two years. You see, phone companies heavily subsidize their phones so that they can make back their money selling you a service plan.

I don't think the bare minimum Apple plan can even be considered that. $60.00 a month for 450 minutes? That equates to roughly 15 minutes a day in a 32 day month. You said it was intended for big businesses as opposed to us regular joes, what company is gonna be willing to shell out that kind of cash for 15 minutes a day?

I don't think the iPhone is aimed at businesses, I think it's aimed at "Ultra cool designers" who have nothing better to do than blow money on a phone with a sleek interface and Apple Fanboys. (Basically the same thing) [That was a joke]


The people at Apple, on the other hand, make their money off their hardware. That's their business model and one that works for them. They don't have to be like the competition because they are offering customers a revolutionary interface, a Video IPOD, OSX and a web browser with full functionality.

Revolutionary? I hope you don't mean the touch screen. I really really really hope you don't mean the touch screen. People keep touting the touchscreen as brand new, when it just isn't. Some have even speculated that Apple took the design from a phone which won a design contest a year before. OSX? Seems more like a detriment to me. ;)

Maybe that's what they can blame the crappy loads on. Review of the E70s web browsing (http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_e70-review-96p5.php) touted by them as one of the best web browsers out there and it's a year old phone... It even loads flash unlike the iPhone and plays java scripts.


And I'm happy your so-called $100 phone works, but there are many phones that are tedious to work with and you know it. Me, I use my phones just to make calls and that's it, but I don't fault people who desire a better experience, especially when they've been feed inferior products for so long.

It's not $100 as I said earlier, it's $360. I'm sure tedious to deal with phones exist and I'm putting the iPhone in that camp. With the bad touchscreen response which according to the article I linked to earlier said that it required hard presses and would regular pick up multiple key presses. Not to mention that the 'word fixer' app that's on the iPhone "Only understands basic words".

Man that took a while to type...

AT&T won't even sell the phone to businesses at this time, only individual consumers.

Oh my, now that's strange...

Clark is way, way off. But, it's ok. No need to spend lots of energy now on pointing out obvious flaws of theiPhone to fanatics because in six months sales of this product will be so low that there won't even be a debate any more.

Unless, of course, Apple wises up and follows Nintendo's lead.

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/39/applefitld9.jpg

Heh.

You're right I don't own one. I've used one though at the Apple store. Let me think how the iPhone is shoddy... Hmm. Could it be the non-responsive keyboard...

That's all great, I'm so happy you could the discern the usefulness of a product in what was probably a fifteen minute visit to the Apple store. But I've read many reviews by people who make their living reviewing products, who say the keyboard is great.

Even the Apple hating CNET gave the iPhone an excellent rating (8/10) and said the touch screen was: "easier to use than expected. What's more, we didn't miss a stylus in the least. Despite a lack of tactile feedback on the keypad, we had no trouble tapping our fingers to activate functions and interact with the main menu. As with any touch screen, the display attracts its share of smudges, but they never distracted us from what we were viewing. The onscreen dialpad took little acclimation, and even the onscreen keyboard fared rather well. Tapping out messages was relatively quick, and we could tap the correct letter, even with big fingers. The integrated correction software helped minimize errors by suggesting words ahead of time. It was accurate for the most part."

But it's kind of useless to point this out, because for every good review I can find, you could find a bad one. And that's okay, not everyone has to like this phone. That's what's so great about America.

...sluggish internet, terrible coverage from AT&T. Not to mention that the much hyped youtube functionality doesn't work well and not all of the videos are even supported.

Sluggish internet: I've already been over the internet stuff. You might have noticed that I said 3G is probably going to be included in the future, but as for now, it's a resource hog that would kill battery life.

Terrible coverage: I've brought this up before, but who's having so much trouble with their AT&T coverage? I'm with AT&T and I have never dropped a call.

YouTube: Anyone who wants to buy this phone to look at "dogs on skateboards" should not be allowed to spend money. I could care less whether YouTube works.

I have also stated that no one should get a first generation product, even from Apple. You might have noticed that I own a fifth generation IPOD. I'm not a first adopter by any means.

I hear people criticizing Microsoft all the time. It's almost become a sport criticizing them. I've got my problems with Microsoft, Vista for instance is something that bothers me a lot, but that's for a different thread. I heard bitching about Vista for months and it's SLOWLY starting to stop, but I still hear people complaining about it every time it's mentioned.

You're right, more people are complaining than they used to, but there is an annoying myth that Microsoft has never failed and that they make great products. Microsoft makes 80% of their money from OEM sales, which means that customers are never really given a choice when buying their PC. Windows becomes pre-installed on most store bought computers.

Microsoft was originally able to leverage the PC market because businesses and PC makers wanted a stable platform and were duped into signing contracts with Microsoft that assign them points to reduce their volume licensing costs. As a result, PC makers like Dell and HP can not put rival operating systems on their PCs or even advertise the existence of other operating systems without incurring large fees on OEM purchases.

I don't think the bare minimum Apple plan can even be considered that. $60.00 a month for 450 minutes? That equates to roughly 15 minutes a day in a 32 day month. You said it was intended for big businesses as opposed to us regular joes, what company is gonna be willing to shell out that kind of cash for 15 minutes a day?

Now this was a pretty good point, but let's keep it in context. This thread was started by a guy suggesting that the iPhone was extremely expensive with a service plan that put the total purchase in the $2000 dollar range. In fact, he was suggesting that it was more expensive than all other smartphones and that simply isn't the truth. If you take the time to break down the prices on other smart phones, you'll see they are even more expensive in most cases, and you're not even getting an Video IPOD or full internet.

I don't think the iPhone is aimed at businesses, I think it's aimed at "Ultra cool designers" who have nothing better to do than blow money on a phone with a sleek interface and Apple Fanboys. (Basically the same thing) [That was a joke]

Uh, I never said the iPhone was aimed at businesses. I said it was aimed at "high-end users", and yeah the Ultra cool designers and Apple Fanboys are in that mix. Of course, Apple has always targeted the high-end market, because they make more money that way. Apple has more profit share than either Dell or HP.

Some have even speculated that Apple took the design from a phone which won a design contest a year before. OSX? Seems more like a detriment to me. ;)

Yeah, so? Apple stole the GUI interface and mouse from Xerox PARC and Microsoft in turn, stole it from Apple. It's not important who invents a product, it's what they do with it. Dashiell Hammett invented the hard-boiled detective novel, but Raymond Chandler perfected it.

And don't even get me started on OSX. OSX is five years ahead of anything put out by Microsoft.

I didn't bother to respond to the other parts of your posts because I felt it was more of the same. We'll just have to agree to disagree on most points. You have a right to your opinion.

I also want to thank you for taking the time to support your argument. On this forum people have a tendency to say, "Hey, man, you're completely wrong, but I'm too lazy to tell you why."

Microsoft was originally able to leverage the PC market because businesses and PC makers wanted a stable platform and were duped into signing contracts with Microsoft that assign them points to reduce their volume licensing costs. As a result, PC makers like Dell and HP can not put rival operating systems on their PCs or even advertise the existence of other operating systems without incurring large fees on OEM purchases.

*cough (http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs)*

Who cares about the iphone??? is this a big story?

Who cares about the iphone??? is this a big story?

Apparently not because we're discussing it. hehe

"I have never dropped a call with my current Cingular/AT&T phone. I also have had the benefit of living in San Francisco and Los Angeles, so perhaps I've been lucky so far, but where are all these people who have constant problems with their coverage with AT&T? Where do they live, in boony town? I doubt someone who lives hundreds of miles from civilization will need this phone anyway. This phone is obviously targeting high-end city dwellers, browsing on their way to Starbucks, so stop classifying the thing as something it's not."
-Clark_Richardson

Well Clark, Try the midwest for a start. Actually the midwest accounts for a pretty large portion of the country in case you weren't aware of this little fact. I'm glad to hear that you have "never had a dropped call". I'm sure that the fine folks in Wisconsin, Iowa and Ohio (for instance) feel much better now knowing that Clark gets great signal strength in San francisco. (Also, what did I clasify it as?)

Also, I didn't say that there was any "dangerous" third-party software. I was simply pointing out that Apple wont allow you the freedom to download what content you want unless they not only approve of it but unless they get even more money from you on top of the money they'll get from you (over $100 additional dollars to replace your battery) for non-competitive add-ons. You think you own your phone when in reality, Apple owns your ass if you have one of these little gems.

As to the rest of your post... ugh, I've got nothing. it would take days and I just dont care that much anymore. Not only did they have a rough launch selling far fewer units in the first month than Jobs promised, thus managing to lower Apple stock a little bit if only for a few days (not that big a deal, Apple as a company rocks and is extremely profitable), but come the end of January we'll all find out if this thing is something people really want to invest in.

BTW, When I was talking about the total cast for two years, I was referring to the MINIMUM rate plan of $59 a month. That's a tough pill for a lot of people to swallow. Yes, even for "road-warriors" that's an expensive investment. For the cost of owning this phone for 2 years, you could buy yourself a Mac Book Pro, have all the features of this "phone" and add a ton of funtionality. Though admittedly it'd be a bitch trying to fit a Mac Book into your shirt pocket.

I'm not anti-Mac. I've been using Macs since my first Apple II. I was just looking at this from a "monopolizing business enterprise vs. duped consumers" stand-point and in time I suspect we'll get our iPhone song parody (I was just hoping to egg someone on enough to make one. I ****ing love these things and would love to have one for the iPhone).

And finally, I guess I have to say this for you so as to avoid you disecting every word: This is my opinion. I in no way believe I know all there is to know. The statements that I've added here are in many cases intended as generalizations. I in no way intended to suggest that my opinion is the only one whose matters.......

****-it... I'm gonna go eat some chicken... ;)

Some people just hacked the iPhone to where it can have third-party apps, so don't be surprised to see viruses here in the future.

I say, if the iPhone can be used as a vibrator it's got a chance. The old Mac Classic case was used as a fish tank eventually, so Apple does have a history of re-purposed products. And, don't forget all of the Apple Newtons now dutifully serving as place holders in closets and attics worldwide.

Iphone for 2$ =)

The iPhone Crane Game via Gizmondo (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/iphone/the-iphone-crane-game-282853.php)

http://www.iphones.ru/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/0721072348.jpg http://www.iphones.ru/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/0721072340.jpg

This guy uses peroids about as much as rothbart does....

This guy uses peroids about as much as rothbart does....



I've never used "peroids" in my whole life. They aren't sanctioned in the gaming community. In fact if I'm not mistaken, if you get caught using peroids, you have to start your level over and dont get to save your game.

Isn't the Iphone useless???

If it were useless, nobody would buy it. If you're saying that all of its features are available in other products, then for the most part, yeah.

Iphone....I'd rather get a Ps3.

Hey Darkman, I meant periods.... but way to make an unfunny joke at my expense...

The Cow Goes Moo!!!!

Iphone....I'd rather get a Ps3.
Or, a new crack pipe and something to put in it.

Well Clark, Try the midwest for a start. Actually the midwest accounts for a pretty large portion of the country in case you weren't aware of this little fact. I'm glad to hear that you have "never had a dropped call". I'm sure that the fine folks in Wisconsin, Iowa and Ohio (for instance) feel much better now knowing that Clark gets great signal strength in San francisco. (Also, what did I clasify it as?)


You know, if you back up your argument with some data that proves AT&T has bad reception in the Mid-West, you would have a valid point, but all I've seen from anyone in this thread is baseless FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt).


Also, I didn't say that there was any "dangerous" third-party software. I was simply pointing out that Apple wont allow you the freedom to download what content you want unless they not only approve of it but unless they get even more money from you on top of the money they'll get from you (over $100 additional dollars to replace your battery) for non-competitive add-ons.


You know, one of the things that causes Windows to crash so much is the drivers from third party software. I think Microsoft did research that showed that 70% of crashes in Windows were caused by third party drivers. Apple isn't like Microsoft. Their software and hardware is designed to work seamlessly, in order to ensure a more stable platform and user experience.


You think you own your phone when in reality, Apple owns your ass if you have one of these little gems.


Okay, fair enough, but exactly what kind of software to want on this phone that is so important to you? Give me an example so that I can understand your point. This is a phone, after all, not a desktop computer.

I have a Video IPOD. I've never looked at my IPOD and thought, "Gee Whiz, this is a great product, I just wish I could put Winamp or Windows Media Player on it." If you suggested that to another IPOD user they'd think you were insane. And remember, the iPhone is an IPOD that happens to make phone calls. It sounds like you would really rather it be some sort of glorified PDA instead.


As to the rest of your post... ugh, I've got nothing. it would take days and I just dont care that much anymore. Not only did they have a rough launch selling far fewer units in the first month than Jobs promised...


Now you're just talking out of your ass or perhaps you don't understand the concept of fiscal quarters. First of all, the only sales projections that Steve Jobs has released is the hope for 10 million iPhones sales by the end of 2008 and that he expects the sales to reach 1 million by the end of the next quarter. The reported sales of the 270,000 iPhones was for the last two days of the third fiscal quarter, Friday and Saturday only. Apple has not reported what they sold on Sunday, so it's probably much higher.

All other sales projections has been put forth by analysts like David Baily of Goldman Sachs, who predicted (like the idiot he is) that the Apple would sell "700,000" iPhones in one weekend. Let me make this clear, no phone has ever sold 700,000 units in one weekend, but then again, no other phone has sold 270,000 phones in two days. The iPhone has become the fasting selling phone in history.

Just to give you some facts, so you don't think I'm blowing this out my ass:

Palm sold 500,000 Palm OS Treos in the first three months of 2007. That's less than twice as many units across 13 weeks, compared to Apple’s two days of iPhone sales.

RIM sold 1,030,000 Blackberries in 90 days, less than four times as many phones as Apple’s two days.

All of Microsoft's Windows Mobile licensees, including Palm's WinCE based Treos, added up to 1,510,000 units. In a sales
period 45 times longer than Apple’s iPhone debut.


BTW, When I was talking about the total cast for two years, I was referring to the MINIMUM rate plan of $59 a month. That's a tough pill for a lot of people to swallow. Yes, even for "road-warriors" that's an expensive investment. For the cost of owning this phone for 2 years, you could buy yourself a Mac Book Pro, have all the features of this "phone" and add a ton of funtionality. Though admittedly it'd be a bitch trying to fit a Mac Book into your shirt pocket.


Every criticism you've had in this thread has been lifted from the so-called professional bloggers and Microsoft fanboys from another sites. These are the same people that said the Zune was going to rule the world. If you could get another phone with a Video IPOD, full internet and the best user interface for a phone ever made, and without a service plan, your argument here would make more sense, but when you analyze other service plans for other phones, it exposes your criticism for what it is, baseless FUD.


I'm not anti-Mac. I've been using Macs since my first Apple II. I was just looking at this from a "monopolizing business enterprise vs. duped consumers" stand-point and in time I suspect we'll get our iPhone song parody (I was just hoping to egg someone on enough to make one. I ****ing love these things and would love to have one for the iPhone).


Don't give me that crap. You are anti-Mac. You're probably pissed that Sarcastic Gamer did such a hit job on Microsoft's Surface and was hoping that they could do the same to Apple. The problem is, it's sort of hard to be sarcastic about a device that doesn't weigh 150 pounds and actually has features that people can use. What kind of parody could you do for the iPhone? Hold on for a second, let me give it a whack:

The iPhone, just when you thought that Apple couldn't make any more money from the IPOD, here comes another device that will make you buy another one all over again. It's more than an IPOD this time, now you can call your poor cousins in West Virginia and mock them while listening to amazing tracks in crystal clear AAC sound. The iPhone has features that will probably get you mugged on the subway. If you manage to fight off your attackers and need to tell the police where you are, Google Maps will happily show them the way. While you're waiting, click on over to YouTube and watch this dog on a skateboard! The iPhone, for all those people who wasted their money buying a Surface. Take that Microsoft.

Hey, actually, that's pretty darn good...


And finally, I guess I have to say this for you so as to avoid you disecting every word: This is my opinion. I in no way believe I know all there is to know. The statements that I've added here are in many cases intended as generalizations. I in no way intended to suggest that my opinion is the only one whose matters.......


Yeah, I know this is your opinion, but your opinion sucks. But guess what, you have the right to give a sucky opinion and I have the right to say that you have a sucky opinion. Isn't America great!


****-it... I'm gonna go eat some chicken... ;)


Great, bring some back for me.

You know, if you back up your argument with some data that proves AT&T has bad reception in the Mid-West, you would have a valid point, but all I've seen from anyone in this thread is baseless FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt).

It appears that the western U.S. does indeed have low coverage compared to the rest of the U.S. See attached image.

The image was taken from here (http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/).

It was resized, but you can see my point.

You know, if you back up your argument with some data that proves AT&T has bad reception in the Mid-West, you would have a valid point, but all I've seen from anyone in this thread is baseless FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt).

Former ATT customers know how BAD ATT is. FUD has nothing to do with it.

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/429/atteh8.jpg

I live in the Tulsa, OK area...yeah, reception can be kinda crappy inside your house and in places where there are a lot of trees, but for the most part, I get pretty decent reception.

It appears that the western U.S. does indeed have low coverage compared to the rest of the U.S. See attached image.

The image was taken from here (http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/).

First of all, dakman 33 said that people in the "Midwest" would be having reception problems. The Midwest is Illnois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Ohio, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota and Wiscousin. That's about 70,000,000 people, so that's a good percentage of the population.

So what are the major population centers of the Midwest? Let's see, according to your map, Chicago looks covered, Detroit looks covered, St. Louis is cool, Omaha is good, Des Moines is good, Minneapolis is okay, but Fargo and Sioux Falls ARE ****ED. Of course, I can't pin-point those cities on the map, but the reception looks pretty scarce up there in those Dakotas.

Of course that would only be important if the iPhone was targeting farm boys. You might have noticed that people camping out for the iPhone were people in San Francisco and New York. You know, the Save-the-Earth, Hey-I'm-Walking-Here! crowd.

When I said Dakman needed to back up his argument, I should have added that his facts should have relevance too.

I'm just providing facts. I don't really care either way. And if you were to follow the link I provided, you can zoom in on different areas. =)

I'm just providing facts. I don't really care either way. And if you were to follow the link I provided, you can zoom in on different areas. =)

Thanks, because you helped to prove my point. Of course, even if someone found a map that showed AT&T had no reception in rural America, it still wouldn't matter to me because Apple is not targeting that segment of the population.

Whenever I have the Mac Vs.*PC debate on forums, the number one argument used by the Microsoft fanboys is the fact that Microsoft has a greater market share. "If Apple is so great," they say, "why do they have only 2% of the market?" I usually respond by saying, "GM has 30 percent of the car market. Does that mean a Buick is better than a BMW?"

This response usually shuts my opponents down, primarily because it is an apt analogy. BMW, like Apple, has 2 percent of the car market. A BMW is a higher priced car because you are paying a premium for it's style, engineering, and the bragging rights that come with it. Despite this reality, I see the majority of Apple supporters deflecting to lessor points about usability, Unix architecture, virus protection, etc. While those points have legitimacy, for me, the primary lure of the Mac is the fact that is a high end product, for the high end sector of the market.

If Apple were to ever gain a significant share (10 percent or more) of the PC market, I think it would devalue them somewhat. In this sense, we need Microsoft, because in a lot of ways, having a defective product like Windows gives Apple users an edge. If I'm working in a design firm with a Macintosh that is geared to delivering speedy delivery and render times, in a safe, virus free environment, and my opponent is slaving away in a Windows environment prone to crashes and slower performance due to malware and viruses, who do you think will come out on top?

So for me, the iPhone is in the same category. It's for the Starbuck crowd and high-end computer users. Once everyone has one, no matter where you go, there won't be anything special about it anymore. It'll just be another IPOD.

As a native of Chicago and being an ATT customer (via cingular) I report no problems with my 3G phone. Just weiging in. I want an IPhone, but not until it supports HSDPA.

As a native of Chicago and being an ATT customer (via cingular) I report no problems with my 3G phone. Just weiging in. I want an IPhone, but not until it supports HSDPA.


You know, I am tempted to say that Apple is going to ignore 3G completely, but common sense tells me otherwise. Apple has to go 3G if it expects to get into the European markets and especially Japan, where 3G has some serious first adopters. But you can't use conventional wisdom when it comes to Apple. The fact that they don't comment on future products makes it even harder, but one thing that sets Apple apart from other companies, is the fact that they are game changers. When Apple enters a market they always think out of the box.

I'm starting to think that Apple is really setting up the iPhone to play in the VoIP market, which if implemented properly with Wifi (voWifi), will cut off the telecommunications industry at the knees. The reason I say that is because Google, which is an obvious partner with the iPhone, is set to bid on the FCC's auction of the 700 MHz bandwidth, which is scheduled to be reclaimed from analog television in 2009.

Google is also sponsoring an effort to give free city-wide Wireless internet to residents in San Francisco. So what does that have to do with the iPhone? Chris Sacca, the principal of new business development at Google, has commented that this measure is in line with Google's thinking on "delivering answers anytime, anywhere to anyone, and looking beyond a desktop PC." How does Google plan to do that without a portable device like the iPhone?

Google also attached four conditions to the FCC in making a bid on 700 band:

1) Google wants any auction winners to be forced to rent spectrum to others at negotiated rates so that smaller, would-be cellphone carriers can acquire airwave usage without having to spend billions in the auction.

2)Carriers must make their networks compatible so that consumers can switch between providers without having to buy a new mobile device.

3)Third parties such as Internet service providers must be allowed to connect to wireless networks.

4)Consumers must be allowed to download and use any applications they want on their mobile devices.

All these conditions will bolster VoIP. With his last condition, they are obviously referring to Skype and Google Talk, which the telecommunication companies have been blocking in their efforts to kill VoIP. VoIP would undercut expensive voice/long distance and international call toll plans by providing cheap calls over the internet. So if I'm right, the scenario would work like this:

By 2009, Apple should have an significantly installed base of iPhone users with Google apps bundled with the phone. Apple releases a Nano-like iPhone and cleans house in the low-end market. Google expands into the Wifi market by grabbing the 700 MHz band and shortly thereafter, millions of iPhone users will be reaching the end of their service plans, creating a stampede to Google's ultra-low service plans, cutting out AT&T. Of course, AT&T might be in on the plan, and will be waiting in the wings to clean up what's left of Verizon and Sprint. This move will also buoy Google's search market share, because Google is directly built into Apple's Safari browser.

Of course, Verizon and Sprint would have to be pretty stupid to let this happen. Verizon has already ramped up FUD in Congress, accusing AT&T and Apple of having excessively high termination fees for the iPhone. Does anyone really think they did this because they are concerned about consumers? Yeah, right.

BTW, 3G has never really been an issue for me. I waiting for a 30 Gig iPhone that will hold all my music and videos.

Ruh-Roh. (http://www.docadamsaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219)

That's all I've got to say. Reminds of the other wireless problem Apple had that would allow someone to take complete remote control of the computer in like a minute or less...

I might come back and post something up later but right now I'm in the middle of something in another forum that I need to give my attention and time too.

Ruh-Roh. (http://www.docadamsaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219)

That's all I've got to say. Reminds of the other wireless problem Apple had that would allow someone to take complete remote control of the computer in like a minute or less...


This is terrifying news. You know why? Because this theoretical vulnerability can never be patched when iPhone users sync to iTunes! Apple doesn't have the manpower to tackle the overwhelming threat posed by one single insignificant theoretical vulnerability yet to be released in the wild!

This is the end of the iPhone as we know it! This is the first phone to be hacked in the history of mankind! Now any enterprising hacker with an open source Web Kit, coding ability, a personal server with an identically spoofed encrypted web site, will be able to call your friends on call waiting and not click over. They will be able listen to voice-mails of people they don't know and groove non-stop to your Barry Manilow tunes! This theoretical exploit will destroy Apple in the same way those 10,000 real viruses destroyed Microsoft. Oh, the horror! The horror!

CAN'T *sniff* STOP *sniff sniff* CRYING!!!

I love it when people take what I say and completely over-dramatize the way I said it. I figured me saying 'Ruh-Roh' would have been enough indication that it wasn't a very serious matter.

But in the mean-time it's not a theoretical problem, it works and I never even implied that it would be impossible to fix, I guess you didn't read much of the website because they've notified Apple and have actually told them how to fix it. Thanks for assuming that I thought it was the end of the iPhone though, it truly did make for a hilarious post.

I love it when people take what I say and completely over-dramatize the way I said it. I figured me saying 'Ruh-Roh' would have been enough indication that it wasn't a very serious matter.

But in the mean-time it's not a theoretical problem, it works and I never even implied that it would be impossible to fix, I guess you didn't read much of the website because they've notified Apple and have actually told them how to fix it. Thanks for assuming that I thought it was the end of the iPhone though, it truly did make for a hilarious post.


Dude, I'm agreeing with you, what's wrong? It is absolutely, positively the scariest thing I've ever had the misforturne to read, even though I read it a few days ago.

And what does "Ruh Roh" mean anyway? I'm looking into my dictionary and it's drawing blanks. Is that anything like when someone says: Apple is the suck3rz! or Apple said they couldn't get viruses PWN3D!!!!1

Because if it is, I got to tell you, dude. That's completely original.

It's from Scooby Doo. That's why I figured it would be taken lightly. I guess it was a bad text impression on my part but whatever.

I don't see why your continuing to assume that I'm saying this is the death of the iPhone. I thought my last post would clear that up...

Edit:

"That's all I've got to say. Reminds of the other wireless problem Apple had that would allow someone to take complete remote control of the computer in like a minute or less..."

I guess that's where you could be getting the idea that I think this is the downfall of Apple, I don't really understand how me citing one exploit which is kind of similar to this one could make you think that though.

Actually, Ruh Roh is from the Jetsons. OOOOh i hope we get to argue about this in the forum for a couple of more pages....

Damn, I sounded completely obnoxious yesterday. I'm going into rehab now.

Hey Darkman, I meant periods.... but way to make an unfunny joke at my expense...

Wow! That's fascinating. First, it's "DAKman". No "R" in sight. 2nd, you used 7 periods in a sentence trying to slam me for over-using periods. That was ironic, dont you think?

Wow! That's fascinating. First, it's "DAKman". No "R" in sight. 2nd, you used 7 periods in a sentence trying to slam me for over-using periods. That was ironic, dont you think?

Actually, I was slamming you for underusing periods, if you read the post or would have read anything Rothbart has posted, I guess you would have recognized that and saved yourself a post. While I'm on the subject, I should have got you for your run-on sentances, poor grammar...... I could go on, but you get the idea and I thought we were talking about the iphone???

Second, sorry if i got your name wrong. Actually, Darkman sounds better, maybe you should change it, Dakman?

Finally, that's not really irony. You must have went to the Alanis Morrisette school of pointing out irony. Rain on your wedding day isn't ironic. Neither was the use of the periods when you thought i was slamming you for over-use of periods. Maybe you could change your name to Alanis?

Check back with me when you bring the funny and we'll talk.... oh and here's some more periods........................................... ................................................. how ironic!

Actually, I was slamming you for underusing periods, if you read the post or would have read anything Rothbart has posted, I guess you would have recognized that and saved yourself a post. While I'm on the subject, I should have got you for your run-on sentances, poor grammar...... I could go on, but you get the idea and I thought we were talking about the iphone???

Second, sorry if i got your name wrong. Actually, Darkman sounds better, maybe you should change it, Dakman?

Finally, that's not really irony. You must have went to the Alanis Morrisette school of pointing out irony. Rain on your wedding day isn't ironic. Neither was the use of the periods when you thought i was slamming you for over-use of periods. Maybe you could change your name to Alanis?

Check back with me when you bring the funny and we'll talk.... oh and here's some more periods........................................... ................................................. how ironic!


Wow............................................... ......................I think you need a hug............................................... .................................................. ..................................

Where's that Jetsons thread, that's what I want to talk about. I'd settle for a debate/flamewar over which TV show was better, Charmed or Buffy the Vampire Slayer, too.

Where's that Jetsons thread, that's what I want to talk about. I'd settle for a debate/flamewar over which TV show was better, Charmed or Buffy the Vampire Slayer, too.

OMG, Charmed is teh suck compared to Buffy. No contest.

Buffy all the way!